Other "Thinking Drafts" and writing by Keith Drury -- http://www.indwes.edu/tuesday .

RESPONSES... To "Sexual Sin" Column

From: danr@injoy.com
Here's one for the list: "There is no such thing as innocent flirting." The extra moment of eye contact, the "playful" attention given to someone, treating someone of the opposite sex kinder than you treat your spouse, "acting out" to capture someone's attention - these and other things of a similar nature considered to be "no big deal" are potentially lethal. --Dan Reiland

From: Harry Wood (HFWood@aol.com)
I have had to face the impact of adultery from the DS's position. The impact far exceeds what most ministers realize. The pronounced undercutting of others confidence in Christ and His message accompanies a moral figure in the life of the messenger. As one young lady expressed to me leaving the church after I had made the "announcement" of the pastors removal, "he lied to us, he did my wedding just three weeks ago and lied to us about the marriage vow, how do I know he didn't also lie to me about Jesus ?" One additional item on your list that I have found to be critical. When our sense of disillusionment in ministry begins to rise be careful... Satan has a way of wanting to "comfort" us in our despair. --Harry F. Wood

From: Jason Makowsky (jmak@writeme.com)
I would add... "Don't be afraid to approach a person who you suspect is falling or trapped in this temptation and if someone approaches you with a warning, take it as the Holy Spirit, possibly speaking through them to warn you? They might see a future trap that you do not. Pastor's are often naive about such things and lack *accountability* which helps like garlic to ward off evil vampires. Young men and women of the pastorate... Allow your spirits to be teachable and approachable and open to rebuke (accountability) from others... If you become defensive it might already be too late. -- Jason Makowsky

From: Roger Keyzers (kwc@intranet.ca)
1. Yes. 2. Yes. 3. No. 4. No. 5.a) Yes. b) No. 6.a) No. b) Yes. 7. I don't know. My gut reaction is "yes" [to #7 -- you'll get caught] but I was just involved in a conversation last week with a fellow pastor who feels there are probably many brothers who have sinned sexually, and no one knows. Unconfessed sin and no repentance will lead to judgement, as it did in the examples you quoted. Hopefully the judgement we face will not be the same as Ananais & Sapphira. King David's judgement had a life-long effect, as will one's sexual sin. However, confession and repentance lead to the appropriation of God's mercy. How it takes form is God's business, and He makes that clear to the transgressor, and to those who may be involved in the correction and restitution of the transgressor. I just turned 34 - my rules are the same as these "Old timers" when it comes to protecting myself from sexual sin. I surmised at an early age that I could learn from other people's mistakes. Grey hair and wisdom often do go together!

From: Mel Norton (olivet@nbnet.nb.ca)
My advice to those under your influence would be: Keep these four facts embedded in your heart and mind - 1) You Are Not Immune 2) Keep Your Spiritual Life Up-To-Date 3) Count The Cost 4) Remember a few moments of pleasure are not worth the utter devastation or even the long road back to recovery of trust. -- Mel Norton

From: Lynn Olibrice (lolibric@mb.sympatico.ca)
...three easy steps: 1. Take your guidance from the Holy Spirit 2. Get your advice from the Word of God 3. Keep your eyes on Jesus - and nowhere else!! .....then take the rest of the year off to go hiking with the Xers.... -Lynn Olibrice

From: Bill Dawson (wtdawson@bellsouth.net)
I'm not a minister, or a teacher of future ministers. But I've always been impressed by the farsighted rules Billy Graham made for himself 'way back nearly 50 years ago, when his ministry first began to take off. ...he had an ironclad rule: he would never be alone with a female other than his wife. He would not allow a female journalist to interview him in his hotel room, he would not meet for a counseling session with a female alone, he would not go to the home of a friend if the husband was not at home. Surely God led him to these simple rules, for they enabled him to avoid not only impropriety, but even the appearance of it. Call him an old fogey if you wish (I don't), but there's never been a hint of scandal in his ministry. -- Bill Dawson, Jackson, Mississippi

From: "Jonathan B. White" (holy3x7@ncats.newaygo.mi.us)
The old-timers who followed the old-timers advice did just great. The rules and principles you listed are timeless. The great conceit of the boomer generation was always to think that history didn't matter and had nothing to teach us. Our attitude reflected that of Henry Ford, who once said, "History is more or less bunk. The only history I'm interested in is the history we're making right here, right now!" Well, we boomers are sure making a lot of history. I hope someone notices. --Jon White

From: jdhowell@juno.com (John D Howell)
Tough topic, Keith. Here I sit, I am 23 years old and married. Of the ten most influential people in my spiritual journey, 7 out of ten have fallen because of some type of sexual sin. Has it affected me? The answer is yes, in my marriage, in my ministry, in my inter-personal relationships with members of the opposite sex, in every area of my life these 7 men constantly remind me of what not to do. You ask the question, "So, how do YOU protect yourself from sexual sin? How can I answer this question when the majority of my spiritual mentors have fallen because of this very problem? The advice that I have heard, or better yet, seen is that you put your life in God's hands, period. You can't give advice to a 21 year old kid on how to avoid sexual temptation. However, you can live a life that is holy and upright and in accordance with God's teachings. The most effective way to communicate is not through your words though. Words are meaningless in our society. Show me how you live your life. Tell me through your actions what is right and what is wrong. Provide for me a true example of leadership that I can follow and I won't stray away. Show me Jesus, for everything else is nothing. --John D Howell

From: Jack Lynn (jlynn@sirus.com)
Great reminders of some real fundamental truths that are still true and very, very current. I thank the Lord for the teaching of a few years ago on "10 Steps Out". I have used that for myself over and over and have taught it to many others. Thanks for the fresh reminder today. You remain a deep blessing in my life Keith. God's best to you. --Jack Lynn

From: larry101@juno.com
Bill Clinton's problem is not that anybody can prove he had sex with another woman. It's that he can't prove he didn't. These rules are aimed not just at being innocent, but at being "above reproach." Is that still necessary? Ask the president.

From: "Judy Hop" (jlhop@hotmail.com)
Keith, you asked what rules pastors live by. May I add one to it? Please encourage the young people to hold their board, leaders and teachers accountable to a lifestyle of integrity. Thanks Please continue to teach them to be a person of integrity so that others can use them as an example. Thanks jlh

From: Bruce Moyer (cbcrmoyer@scioto.net)
I am surprised that your list didn't include something on developing a deep passion for God, which only comes via a total surrender, issuing in a sanctified heart and mind. I have also advised our college students from time to time, that it is good to do physical exercise, which can help release some of the physical tensions and temptations. I don't find the counsel of the "old-timers" out-dated. Most of it is the better part of common sense, and a passion for God (emanating from a pure heart) that is greater than our passion for anything else, will help bring and keep these seven admonitions in focus. --Bruce Moyer

From: DnChristy (DnChristy@aol.com)
Rules, guidelines, suggestions & advice are all for naught without accountability. --Derek Bethay

From: Terry (TerryD@webzone.net)
I totally agree with each bit of advice given, but I think it may have something to do with my age. (I am a boomer) It has been unsettling this week to see that while most people believe our president is lying about having an affair with an intern, he has the highest satisfaction rating since becoming president. It seems to me, Keith, that the Xrs have a whole different standard of morality. Perhaps the well publicized failure of a number of television preachers has made the youth as skeptical of ministers as they are of politicians. The real kicker could be that many of the young ministers today are affected more by the environment they have grown up in and not the Bible and the expectations of the calling they have accepted. Thanks for giving us help to keep the grey matter working. --Terry

From: "Roger Green" (rogerwgreen@hotmail.com)
I just returned from a Prayer Summit near Seattle sponsored by Multnomah in which we were reminded of the survey by Howard Hendricks on the major reasons for standing or falling by ministers into sexual sin. The No. 1 element missing in those who fell (10% of all ministers) and present in those who finished strong was accountability partners who would be "brutally" honest -- agreed to by a group of three. ("two are stronger than one...a chord of three strands is not easily broken") Three allows for one to be unavailable at the precise moment one needs help and one is still likely to be reachable. Two are less likely to be taken by a "snow job" or lies than just one partner. It is vital that we not be "lone rangers" in doing our ministry. We are never strong enough to beat Satan alone -- and men can help us stay closer to the God Who is our Salvation. -- Roger Green

From: "Bryan Balasa" (oakgrove@michianatoday.com)
Talk about old-fashioned, out of touch, outdated, etc, etc, advice!... Seriously, I think if more of us younger men in the ministry would realize the wisdom that God has passed on to us through these wise "Old-timers" we would have a lot less trouble than we do in this area. Why is it (I think the answer is pride) that we seem to think that we are somehow better or less likely to sin than any of these past generations? Let's see, pride comes before ... what was it??? Thank you for your column. Keep up the good work. You provide a blessing and encouragement to many of us who are on the front lines for the souls of men. --Bryan Balasa

From: "JOHN MURPHY" (effgraph@email.msn.com)
Your column on sexual sin was forwarded to me by an old friend and former minister, E.P. Murphy. I believe you were right on, except for one part. in your opening you say in spite of the moral decline people still want marital fidelity in their pastors. I do not think most people today know what fidelity is... I think if we listened more to the old ones among us we would be much better off. This from a child of the 60's who trusted no one over 30 is a major step. as an elder I have always kept clear of being in a situation where I might be tempted or my integrity compromised even if only by perception. -- John Murphy

From: Mike Postell (NazPasMP@aol.com)
You write: "In spite of America's moral decline, people still expect marital fidelity of their pastors and presidents." Based on today's headlines, I believe you're only half right. Thanks for another thought provoking column. --Mike Postell

So what do you think?

To contribute to the thinking on this issue e-mail your response to Tuesday@indwes.edu