Why Some men don’t “get into” worship
Thoughtful
responses
(Responses are only published with permission of the writer and when Keith Drury thinks they add to the discussion)
From Sam Bills samuelbills@hotmail.com
The paradox of the man-isolating romantic motif in worship- make-out music as Steve Deneff calls it - is that for men it is self-inflicted. Women like Fanny Crosby may have popularized some of the romantic clichés we use to describe a relationship with Jesus, but most of the romantic type songs (those with choruses you can sing in your girlfriends ear Sat. night and then to God Sunday morning) are being written by men. Most of the songs on your list of “college-kid-hip” worship songs from your website, that fit with the romantic motif idea are written by men - Matt Redman, Chris Tomlin, Andy Park, etc.
Without calling them sissies and
discrediting their manhood - I think what they are doing is very much a part of
being human and even manly. Men have historically brought sexuality into
worship. (not to sound too Freudian) take the Romantic
poets of the 18th and 19th century whose worship poems
about nature can also be read as love poems to your romantic interest - or
another example are male sailors who talk about their ship as if it were a
woman they were sleeping with (using the feminine pronoun - as in “she’s a good
ship”). Even patriotism has a romantic
tone to it (think about the way we refer to our country in patriotic songs like
“God Bless
These make-out worship songs seldom
use the masculine pronoun “him” or “he” but use the more intimate and
conveniently gender-neutral “you” They echo refrains like -and I, I’m desperate
for you -You’re all I want, You’re all I ever needed -I’ll hang onto you I
would venture to say that what men envision in singing and writing these songs
is a gender neutral Jesus - making for them a connection between their
sexuality - a desire that men are well acquainted with - and what it means to
worship God. Sexuality has for ages been
the bridge for men to learn what it means to desire God - take
What is troubling about all this -
because ultimately I am agreeing with you and have had my own struggles with
singing love songs to Jesus - is that it is rooted in bad or non-existent
worship theology. Why do we sing these
songs in church anyway? Most parishioners
and sadly even worship leaders have no clue why singing songs is part of what
we do in Christian worship (unless of course they have read your newest book
:)) As
If we stop making Jesus out to be a woman in evangelical worship (and do away with the romantic motif), but continue to worship God in a way that is less than triune, we will simply switch the love metaphor. We may opt for worshipping Jesus as a buddy - sing songs about going hunting or hiking with Jesus (no more of that schmoozy stuff), but switching metaphors will still not give us balanced worship of the Triune God. It will just mean that women will be writing these articles and saying, “how can I relate to a Jesus that I have to go hunting with”.
Sam: I just read your response today. Wow! that was so good ... noting that use of sexualized singing/poetry to everything men adore, not just God. I might add the same imagery is used for the church itself -"her", "she", "mother", "married to the church".
Your turn to the Trinity of God was a turn I would endorse, and found to be the most compelling aspect of your whole response. Switching from sex to hunting won't do. Which all goes to show that someone interested in leading worship is better off studying Religion/Philosophy than Music alone if they want to be a worship pastor worth their weight in communion wafers. (I remember the time you got stuck in the middle of a prayer in chapel when you were afraid you might accidentally imply Modalist heresy in your prayer!) Anyway, your theological training is showing.
As for the different views on gays, I suspect our conservative denominations breath far more fire on the gay community of late precisely because we have no other sexual sin left to hate (except maybe premarital sex, though opposition to that is waning). Remarriage after divorce is mainstream, masturbation is in (even for Dobson), complete bedroom freedom for married people (oral sex, etc.), the unquestioned teaching that sex IS for pleasure and not procreation. Pretty much anything goes for us nowadays, EXCEPT homosexuality (as well as pederasty and bestiality). So of course it gets all the heat. And for now the mass homosexual community within evangelical churches will just stay in the closet because they like it more (b/c of the
worship????) and either genuinely desire to be transformed OR are simply waiting for us to come around. Will we?
Peace,
Ps - for more on the intimate connection of Theology, Worship and Ethics, see Geoffrey Wainwright's tome "Doxology"
FROM;
I just read
your article on Men and worship. Thanks
for the insight. I can relate to the
awkwardness of singing love songs to another man. (It's like singing "I
love you Bob") As a Worship leader to those from age 18 to 97+, you have
given me an perspective that I believe will help. Your
stats are right. Guys are way harder to
reach.
If
I've had any success, It's because I try to lead like
the football quarterback, not the president of a glee club. (No offense to the
choir. I'm a choir guy, but that doesn't fly with the rest of the world).
I've found
that using songs that etc. put the focus on the Majesty and Glory of our God. His Power. (such as "God of
Wonders" "My Glorious" "The Wonderful Cross"
"Prepare the Way.") This seems to work with the guys. It puts us on His team fighting a battle, not
on a dinner date. On the flip side, there is definitely a time and place for
intimacy. Singing of His love for us,
and telling Him of our love is crucial. But, If the guys can first see it as a
team thing, where they're fired up for Jesus, the head coach or star player, then I think they
will open up to seeing the power of Jesus in there lives on an intimate level.
I could go on, but I won't. Thanks for the article.
--
FROM: SLinculver@aol.com
Keith, Thought you were right on the money
(for the most part). At Chicago
Christian H.S. we have tried to get the guys to
participate more in the Chapels at any level.
Singing is very difficult. We've
addressed it directly, talking about raising hands, ways to worship, what is
being a man (defined Christianly)... I have tried to be a model, though I still
cannot raise my hands without feeling like a duffus
or a fake just trying to be a model. I
do not want to be a griping poo-poo artist (we have
plenty of those).
We hired Chip Dykema
a couple years ago, a former student of yours and still considers
you one of two of the best teachers he has known. At the time I was saddened and angry that we
hired a nonreformed Chaplin, not because he had no
God given ability and no heart for kids and the Lord, he does, without question. I thought it violated our bylaws and our
mission and was a move in a particular direction by deception instead of
dealing with it openly and head on. (You
have also expressed concern for those Reformed Churches/Institutions that
evolve into more Armininian ways without serious
reflection).
Could it be that our discomfort with the
songs and hand motions are legitimate in some way? I have come to believe that guys like me are
just insecure? I have heard too many time to "get over it." Are services too
prescriptive (raise your hands "this way or that way", if you believe it
you WILL DO ____________) I grew up in
doctrinally oriented churches, but the new trend is "doctrine of what you
must do with your hands or else".
Who are the bigger Christian fascists?
I have always thought Jesus has become
too female. Though God the Father is
obviously decribed at masculine (I guess there are
Bibles that take care of that), he is without physical form. It is Jesus that is God incarnate. Jesus was all man biologically. Yet he takes on the nurturing role (like
Mom). He talks about being reborn. He weeps.
So when we sing about our love affair with Jesus, he become
the female softening agent to God the Father.
That makes me uncomfortable.
Maybe I should just get over it?
This is mostly rambling, but hey its
email.
Thanks, Stu
FROM:
Steven (Last name and address withheld on
request)
I am writing in response to
your article on why many men resist "getting into" Worship.
I've long enjoyed your writings and typically find them informative, helpful
and well thought out. However, I found your article on men and worship to
be an exception to your typically high standards. Please understand that
I do not write out of a desire to criticize for the sake of being critical
alone and anything I say that comes across as critical I hope will be taken as
constructive and not combative criticism for that is definitely the spirit in
which it is written.
I do not presume to disagree
with the basic premise of your article. I do not debate the fact that
many men have a problem "getting into" worship, rather I wish to
question your closing thoughts in this particular article. Frankly, I
believe you have missed the mark on what the proper solution to this whole
problem should be. It is my opinion that if men have trouble entering
into the worship services (and in particular the worship songs) the problem is
not with the song lyrics but rather with the men themselves. Men are
notoriously insecure at expressing their feelings in our culture but the
solution to that "problem" is not found in denying our insecurities;
it is found in overcoming those insecurities and coming to the realization that
expressions of love do not diminish our masculinity. In this sense I
believe you have avoided the real solution to this problem and settled on a
lesser solution; a solution that not only denies the reality of the problem but
falls only slightly short of "gay bashing."
As a former,
self-identified, gay man myself I honestly found what
you said and the implications of what you said about homosexual men to be
somewhat offensive. To suggest that songs of love to God would somehow
"stir up homoerotic tendencies in these men" is a preposterous
notion. To categorically classify all gay males as if they were incapable
of thinking of another male without it being sexual is simply not accurate or
fair. Gay men or no more attracted to every, or even most, men they see
than heterosexual men would be attracted to every, or even most, women they see. It is also inaccurate and unfair to
say that "most gay males have...weird ideas about Jesus,
My last question for
you is where did you get your research on how this kind of music affects gay
men? Certainly their may be a slim minority of gay males who eroticize everything male including Jesus and the disciples
but to suggest that the majority do that is simply ignorance of
reality. Perhaps the majority (I do know that it is a very large
number) of self-identified "gay" men are men who remain hidden away
within the "closet" of the church because they have no intention of
pursuing a homosexual lifestyle but find no comfort, meaning or direction from
our churches that allow them to believe they are in fact just like other men
and can heal from the broken thinking that has caused them to label themselves
as gay in the first place. Unfortunately the majority of churches,
particularly holiness churches, are all too content to have those who struggle
with same-sex attractions remain hidden away in the closet because they simply
don't wish to face this issue or even attempt to help those who suffer this
very painful brokenness.
Again, I hope this will be
received in the spirit in which it was written. Yes, because of my own
background and having to struggle with the pain and anguish of being raised in
church while struggling my whole life with same-sex attractions makes me
particularly sensitive to any mention of the
issue. To any degree in which I've spoken too quickly because of my
hypersensitivity to it I apologize. Thank you for your consideration of
my thoughts and questions and may God continue to
richly bless your ministry in the years to come.
Sincerely, Steven