From: "Jim & Edna Lake" (lakeaje@neta.com)

Since the Church's power comes courtesy of God and God is sovereign, then it is safe to conclude that He is ultimately in control. We breathe and our hearts beat because of His benevolence. If we make decisions that are not in keeping with His plan and His will, we lose the power that is necessary to change lives for the better. A good example of this would be the Southern Baptists who have lost whatever testimony they might have had to the world, by their political infighting at their big conventions. They may have numbers and political power within their own ranks but it seems the real power of God is long gone. I believe God holds each of us responsible for our own actions and while we may cause others to stumble by our behavior...in the final analysis...we all have access, opportunity, and hope because of the redemption of Christ. God's will, will be done on earth as it is in heaven. No one can interfere with His ultimate purpose...not a wayward President, not an arrogant political denomination, not a fallen angel and certainly not the fad ridden, luke warm, feel good church of the late 20th Century. You attribute power to a group of powerless people who are nothing without God. And so often...we are nothing. President Clinton, you and the rest of us need to begin to fear the Lord God Almighty; I have heard on good authority that wisdom starts at that point. "God be merciful to me a sinner." -- Jim Lake

From: Pastor Charles Kitner (sonforu@twd.net)
My Bible tells me to love my enemies and to do good to those that despite my feelings, use me. It also says that we are supposed to be the children of blessing ... and ought to be blessing and not cursing. Does this mean that we condone sin......not in the least but I can't seem to see where we as the body of Christ are called to condemn a person and place ourselves above Christ who has not come to condemn the world but that the world through Him might be saved. I cannot judge a man and I am not called to do so. I am called by my Lord and savior to love ... for God is love. Oh I know He is also the God of righteousness, and He is holy, but it is up to the Holy Spirit to convict of sin righteousness and judgement, not me. Stephen, when he was being stoned for his witness and preaching of the Lord, looked into heaven and saw Jesus standing at the Father's right hand and asked that God not lay the sin of his murder to their charge....as Jesus did from the cross. So if God will forgive, who here on this earth in this earthen vessel of flesh can dare think that they can do any different and still be doing the will of God. The consequences of the sin may happen, but God would accept Bill Clinton if he will honestly repent and call on the name of the Lord for his salvation....believing that God raised Him up on the third day so he could have life and be saved. -- Pastor Charles Kitner

From: mwilson (mwilson@win.bright.net)
Have you been watching too much Benny Hinn on TBN? Your friend, --Mark Wilson

From: NORM (feltzy@hotmail.com)
Just from my own personal opinion, I think we get into a very frightening area when we allow ourselves the power to condemn a person. I guess I would find it hard to believe that God would allow us that luxury. Where does the final authority on earth come from then? Is it the Pope who decides that Bill Clinton or anyone else is beyond forgiveness? Does it now come down to a majority vote? Do we get all the professed Christians together and if we have a 2/3 majority, then Bill Clinton is bound? So, I guess, again personally-without having consulted scripture yet, I find it extremely hard and even disturbing that we could ever consider ourselves vain or even foolish enough to even want such a responsibility Where is the 70x7 for Bill Clinton? --Jason Feltz

From: GENE SCHENCK (gschenck@asheboro.com)
I do not believe that God has given us the power to send people to eternal destruction where the worm dieth not or the fire is not quenched. As long as there is life I believe that the Bible teacheth that there is hope unless one has committed the unpardonable sin of blaspheming the Holy Ghost! -- Gene Schenck

From: daviddrury@juno.com (David E Drury)
Three reasons why "binding" the sins of Bill Clinton and Damning him would be inapplicable to the present situation: a) The Church hasn't done anything "collectively" since the ascension. Even if a group decided for binding the sins of a person and effectually damning them to Hell we could never get a quorum to meet on the issue much less a collective damning of the President by over 20,000 religious bodies. We could do this if we still all lived under the Pope. But the Pope bound the sins and damned to hell people for primarily political reasons, so I'm not sure if we want to go back to that system, even if kicking the president around a bit with the church power sounds fun. (maybe Ken Starr is the Pope?!?)

b) We already missed our chance to damn Bill because he has already been forgiven by Kingdom people. Countless preachers used the first hearing of this event as an opportunity to display what forgiveness the church and God can have. So preachers were forgiving Bill all the way back in February -- prior to his asking for it. Gordon McDonald (pastor of the church I attended in Mass. and the sinner referenced in your Tues. Column) is already meeting with President Clinton frequently to work through the restitution, forgiveness, and restoration process, something McDonald is somewhat acquainted with. So, if we wanted to have a "LET'S DAMN CLINTON WORLD CHURCH COUNCIL" we should have had it in 1992, in order to beat all the eager forgivers to the punch!

c) This whole thing is a joke anyway. Few would doubt that Clinton is already on the prickly path to hopeless never-never land. In other words, why should we concern ourselves with damning the "Already-Damned." Isn't this futile -- like cursing a duck, telling it to remain a duck. Because if it walks, quacks... you get the point. Proof that this is a joke: when all the "I have sinned" pleas were first put out by the President, the first people he invited to come counsel him were "a priest, a minister and a rabbi..."

So the real question is what we do with our own people -- the "already-convinced" sinners, and you pointed this out. Now that's a harder question. What do you think? ~ Dave Drury, (some-relation) (BR)(BR)(HR

From: "Ray Pritchard" (pastorray@cmcop.org)
Good question. Only God has the ultimate power to send a person to Hell. I would say that the church has the authority (right or power if you prefer) to declare what God has already said He will do. We can declare that God will sent impenitent sinners to Hell and that forgiven sinners will go to Heaven. We can even say something like this: If Bill Clinton refuses to face his own sin--to confess it and truly turn from it--then we have every right to treat him as an unbeliever, regardless of whatever else he might say or do. And if he is truly an unbeliever (apparently masquerading as a Christian), then we have the authority to declare that he is going to Hell unless he truly repents. But there are several important "ifs" in that statement. We need to leave those "ifs" in place lest we end up trying to play God.

For the record, I have no idea where Bill Clinton stands with the Lord. I wish Tony Campolo and Gordon MacDonald well, and I hope they can lead our President in the path of true repentance. Regardless of his spiritual state, I do believe the country would be better served if he resigned. -- Ray Pritchard Calvary Memorial Church Oak Park, Illinois

From: DwMikesell@aol.com
Keith, I've never thought Clinton was worthy of being President. Just about everything I stand for, he opposes. He espouses most things I condemn. Getting Clinton out of the White House and out of national leadership is a good thing to me. But to want to damn his soul or to even consider wanting to have the ability to damn his soul is foreign to me. I pray that God accepts his poor attempts at public repentance, and that in private, he is more forthright and honest with God about his sins. Bill Clinton has not done anything that the sin nature we were all born with is capable of doing. So if in anyway, by God's grace, I have been cleansed from, victorious over, sanctified entirely from, or reckoned dead to my sin nature, it is only by His grace and power, not by any merit of my own. So, when it comes to politics, I want Clinton and his agenda defeated. When it comes to morality, I think his is deplorable. When it comes to his never-dying soul, I pray that he trusts the same Savior that saved and sanctified me. But for the grace of God, Bill Clinton's morality would be better than mine. If God has given the church the authority to block forgiveness for anyone, it is more a test of our own repentance than a desirable procedure to be implemented. The same Bible says, if you don't forgive your brother's sin, your own sin will not be forgiven. How can you love God whom you have not seen if you don't love your brother who you have seen? His policies and practices are despicable, but his never dying soul is precious. The same God who planned my salvation, planned his. The same Christ who shed his blood for me, shed it for him. The same grace that has been offered to me, is offered to him. The church, individually nor collectively, should not even consider such a proposition, even if it is possible. --Dwight Mikesell

From: "Mark Otero" (gr8grce@kiva.net)
Does there seem to be a little bit of a power trip surfacing here? I think some would feel gratified by the notion that they have the ability to eternally curse a man in, probably, the most powerful position of worldly influence. The potential redemption of this president is beyond their consideration. Is this the blindness zeal can lead to? Let God be the judge. No one will get in the gate with out the stamp of mercy on their heart. Call sin, sin but let the Judge decide the ultimate verdict. --Mark Otero

From: "Kimbrough, Kevin" (kimbrokj@horizontel.com)
Good thought. I think that the passage in John must be taken very serious. One thing you left out was that the disciples had just received the Holy Spirit. They had just received a deeper understanding of God's love and insight. By using this newly gained "GIFT" the disciples could discern people's attitude of the heart. They could see the sincerity of the sinner, and would know if the sinner was truly desiring repentance. I do not believe Jesus was giving his disciples the power to forgive someone's sins but the presence to understand God's love for the sinner. When church go-ers (not necessarily people who are striving to understand the heart of God) think they have the power to forgive or not to forgive someone's sins remember they should remember Mark 11:25-26.

"And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive him, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins. But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father who is in heaven forgive your sins. "

You are also correct to start with the point that there most definitely are consequences to sin. If the President or anyone breaks the law then they must pay the consequences for their actions. If they ask forgiveness, the church should forgive and help the individual through the penalties that must be faced. This is what I think--Kevin Kimbrough

From: Aaron McMillan (amillan3@purdue.edu)
You bring up an interesting point, but I think the thing to consider is 'should we damn them?' Even if God has given us this power, aren't we as Christians supposed to love the sinner and hate the sin? Forgive and Forget? As long as the sinner repents, "If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him. If he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times comes back to you and says, 'I repent,' forgive him." Luke 17:3 If Bill Clinton his truly sorry for his sins and asks the American People to forgive him, then we must do so.

Is it also possible that we have this power, but it is meant as a test of our love for God's children? Do unto others...If we damned Clinton for his sins, why shouldn't we be damned for ours? Hasn't it been said that no sin is greater than any other. A sin is a sin. Weather it's adultery, murder, swearing, or stealing a piece of gum. These are my thoughts, but can we ever really know the truth until we get to heaven? --Aaron McMillan Purdue University

From: KAlbright@aol.com
Yes, I believe the Christian Church has the power to bind or loose sins here on earth. Only God can forgive sins and cleanse one from their sins. But we have a mandate from the King of Kings to carry His good news of pardon to the sinner. When this good news is received, the Truth (Jesus Christ), sets the bound captive free from the law of sin and death. However, if we neglect this commission to carry the pardon to those still bound, there is no other provision made for their salvation than the Word of Faith by which they might be saved.

Bind or Loose? What is God's will? That NONE be lost? Ask anything according to the will of God and know that you have it. Pray, work, sacrifice for the salvation of the lost. Someone did for us. Can we do less? --Ken Albright

From: SAHart2@aol.com
I don't believe, through my belief of scripture as I read it, that it is a fact that Christians can supersede the will of an individual. This power would take away the personal accountability and free will of the individual that God gives in regard to accepting or rejecting salvation. If someone sinned and the Christian community "bound" the sin to the person and the guilty person repented, who are we to think that our will was more powerful and important than the value of the next person's soul? The scriptures tell us that we are "bought with a price." Each one of us belongs to God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit through the purchase of blood. (I am not saying that all people are saved!) To say that the purchase power of God, through Jesus, would not be enough to override our will to bind someone's sin sounds a little like Satan saying as recorded in Isaiah 14:13-14

..."I will ascend to heaven;
I will raise my throne
above the stars of God;
I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly,
on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain.
I will ascend above the tops of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High."


As to living with the consequences of sin - we see great men like David fall and yet retain their good standing with God. However, there were consequences that remained with them for the rest of their earthly life. David did not get to build the temple (amongst other noble desires) and Moses did not enter the Promised Land... Sometimes the consequences remain with us for life but the penalty can be removed for eternity through repentance and faith in Jesus.

People are accountable. People are answerable first to God and then to each other. People of God repent to God and each other and accept the consequences and God blesses those who love Him. Thank God for His Grace and His Judgement. -- Doug Hart

From: "Eugene A. Glendenning Ph.D." (velgene@fairfieldi.com)
" Can the Christian church send Bill Clinton to hell- to damn his soul? What an arrogant, self-centered Satan driven thought. The word "Christian" is incongruent in the above question. It is hard to conceive someone who was depraved without hope, redeemed by the Grace of God and washed in the of Christ, could even entertain such a question.

Matthew 18:18 says "whatever" not "whoever". The Christian church cannot collectively refuse to forgive sins. But let's say that the Christian church could condemn Bill Clinton to Hell. They could not act on their power until Bill Clinton had been forgiven 490 times. How ever you want to count it, he probability has 400 times while president before the binding could take place.

Then what about the statement " judge not less ye be judged by the same measure." Count me out, I am just a horrible sinner saved by grace, living one day at a time for Jesus. -- Rev. E.A. Glendenning Ph. D.

And of course, my favorite application is Jesus' reply that ("even though I have the power to) neither do I condemn (damn) you, go and sin no more." Thank you for an insightful essay. -- Doug Fishel Central Baptist Church Winfield, KS

From: Swansnow@aol.com
It is the most powerful quest of the church in the search to "free" ourselves. We seek to damn the president, homosexuals, and even other church members. The God of all is a God of love and grace, justice and mercy, forgiveness and freedom. Do we really have the power to "bind" someone's sins to them. If we look to the prayer that Jesus teaches in the Gospel, "Forgive us our sins as we forgive those who sin against us..." In a world that is falling in sin, we are ambassadors of Christ. We present Christ to the world through our lives. When they receive us they receive Christ. When they receive Christ, they receive the Father. What Father are we portraying? Christ told us also that we will be forgiven as much as we forgive those before us. I believe in a loving God. We are all sinners. We are all saved by the grace and love of God, not His condemnation. His forgiveness, through Christ, frees us. In damning others for their sins, we are denying them the cross. We are keeping them from experiencing the very same thing that saved us. We can forgive and impeach, correct, rebuke, teach, and remove from service; don't deny them life! Thank you Keith for bringing forward such an issue that reminds us of the grace of God and the wonder of that grace. It is a wonder that any of us were forgiven in the first place, but that's the love and joy of it all! Ephesians 2:8,9 --Daniel Botsford, Asbury Theological Seminary

From: carlethomas@juno.com (Carl E Thomas)
I would hardly think so. God is the only One who can forgive sins. He will forgive when any person confesses (to God) his sin, forsakes his sin, and commits his life to Jesus Christ to the best of his ability.

Jesus said, "For this is my blood of the New Testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins." I think this would include Bill Clinton's.

"And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission." (Hebrews 9:22). Jesus shed His blood to forgive. It is not mine, nor any other persons decision. It is the blood of Jesus Christ which forgives sin and hands out remission to the sinner.

Alas! so many false teachings. So much drifting away from the Bible. A return to God's Word as God wrote it, might save us these embarrassments. --Carl E. Thomas

From: Kenneth Burney (pkburney@earthlink.net)
If we have that power, then who WOULD make it into heaven? --Ken

From: "Joel Gorveatte" (faithchurch@voyager.net)
WOW. Just when you think you've got it all figured out... curve ball!! --Joel

So what do you think?

By Keith Drury, 1999. You are free to transmit, duplicate or distribute this article for non-profit use without permission.